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Strange shape in Lunar pic AS11-40-5940

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Strange shape in Lunar pic AS11-40-5940

Post  Jackie (Admin) on Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:48 pm


This odd shape was first pointed out to me by LunaCognita on another site...In all seriousness - What do you see at the top of this image?

Try this -

Save this photo to your computer:

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apollo/images/print/AS11/40/5940.jpg

Open a photo editor and play around with the contrast and color in the section around the tiny blue shape near the top left of the photo.

Please share your thoughts, or better - Post your results!

Thanks for your time!
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Re: Strange shape in Lunar pic AS11-40-5940

Post  Copernicus on Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:24 pm

@Jackie

I’m not very good at image enhancement, but here’s what I’ve come up with.

First, here’s the ISD version (ISD_highres_AS11_AS11-40-5940.JPG) of the image (from the Gateway to Astronaut Photograph of Earth, http://eol.jsc.nasa.gov/sseop/mrf.htm ) at 10% size. The original ISD version is 4400x4600, while the version that Jackie linked to is 3900x3900. I believe the difference in size is strictly due to the borders, in this case, though usually the ISD versions are higher res than other versions.



“Dome Rock” is a reference point for later, while the small arrow points to the blue spot in the image, as seen below.



This is a crop at full size from the ISD image. You can just barely see the shape around the blue star. The shape is pretty much invisible (without enhancement) in the other version.

In the next image I’ve done only a little bit of enhancement:



I split the cropped image to CMYK, took the resultant Black Channel, negatived it, then added some brightness and contrast. Nothing fancy in filters. The bottom part of the “flower” is particularly interesting looking!

Next, I did the same with the Magenta Channel:



The blue star is apparently multi-lobed!

And finally, after a bunch of filters, here’s a crop from Jackie’s link



One thing that I’ve noticed is the apparent consistency of the background noise in the image, with the implication being that it hasn’t been retouched…

More in the next post…

C
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Re: Strange shape in Lunar pic AS11-40-5940

Post  Copernicus on Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:26 pm

While looking at the 5940 image, I noticed a couple of other objects in it. Here is a locator:



The top arrow points to what I call a Blue Comet, while the middle arrow points to something else.



The left image above is a crop from the ISD image at 200%, but with no other enhancement. The right image is from the left, split to CMYK, showing the Black Channel in negative.

I don’t know what this is, but it certainly isn’t a star!

In the next post, a quick look at the Blue Comet (upper arrow).

C
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Re: Strange shape in Lunar pic AS11-40-5940

Post  Jackie (Admin) on Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:47 pm

Do you happen to know the resolution of this image? Very odd shape on that object... Question

I also wanted to add - Excellent work with the filters, C!
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Re: Strange shape in Lunar pic AS11-40-5940

Post  Copernicus on Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:27 pm

Thank you Jackie. Smile I usually don't like to use more than basic filters. The only info I could find is that it was a 60mm lens. Also, there may or may not be a color calibration chart available for that film magazine, but I've found that those are not all that useful in the end.

C
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Re: Strange shape in Lunar pic AS11-40-5940

Post  Copernicus on Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:33 pm

And good Saturday morning to everyone!

It’s funny how these posts evolve sometimes… one thing leads to another, leads to another.

Anyway, I decided to have a look and see if any images adjacent to 5940 might be at the same location, in order to check for additional views of our main “flower” object, the small object, or the Blue Comet.

I looked through some of roll 40, but couldn’t find another image that might show the “flower”. The next image in the series was a bit too far to the right to show the “flower” but it did show the area of the small object and the Blue Comet.

The small object was gone, and the Blue Comet was in a different location. There was a very odd shadow, almost tree-branch like, on the ground, to the upper right, but other images confirmed that this was actually the LEM’s shadow.

Here’s 5941 at 10%...



And the Blue Comet from 5940 and 5941…



Wait a minute now… is the Comet in 5941 actually in the image?



The top image in the pair above is a crop of 5941’s border at 100%, while in the bottom image I colorized the dark section of the border and extended it all the way up into the sky past the comet. The sky is dark so you can’t see the border, but when highlighted it’s obvious that the Comet is on top of the border… so it’s not actually in the real image!



I did the same with 5940, and this time added the semi-transparent border, and you can see that the Comet is right on the boundary.

What’s the point, you ask? Well the Blue Comet or something very similar is in a lot of the images that I’ve seen, and this is the first time that I’ve realized that it is a scanning artifact.

One last thing…

I found this in 5941, and have magnified it by 300%:



Wow! Pretty interesting looking object! What is this? A spaceship shaped like a hairdryer??

Now here’s the locator image cropped straight from the main image at 20%:



What??? It’s right in the middle of the astronaut’s shadow on the lunar surface!!!

Urgg!! I may be wrong, Wink , but I’d say this has got to be yet another scanning artifact!!

I don’t know when these images were scanned, but all of the ISD Apollo images and even the ISD images from the shuttle are all pretty much the same. Lots of background noise… lots of little Blue Comets… lots of small, oddly shaped things in the sky, usually only barely visible…

Now, I’ve been assuming that the background noise is from camera(s), but after thinking about it, I realize it’s only something you get from CCD-type cameras, and not when using film. Nor is this light fogging on a long film exposure, either.

So, obviously the background noise is introduced in the scanning process, and this means that images previously edited won’t show any changes in the background noise, since this is added later, when the image is scanned. And that means that our “flower” could’ve been edited before it was scanned, of course.

I guess this is the fun way to do science… just in case the image processing doesn’t add enough funny little things to the image to keep the scientists entertained, you just make sure that the scanning process does the job.

…and it’ll keep all of those pesky anomaly hunters busy for years to come!!

*sigh*

C

Hint: The key to confirming an object is to find it in at least 2 images, but preferably more. If it changes locations, or changes shape from image to image, then further analysis is obviously required.
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Re: Strange shape in Lunar pic AS11-40-5940

Post  Jackie (Admin) on Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:27 am

And another mystery is solved! This would offer an excellent explanation, C! Impressive work!!! I had wanted to check some of the neighboring images, but you did it much faster than I could have.

There are several other photos I will be looking at when things settle down. Now I have a better idea of how to go about it! You earned two Like a Star @ heaven Like a Star @ heaven !!
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Re: Strange shape in Lunar pic AS11-40-5940

Post  Copernicus on Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:13 pm

Thank you, Jackie Surprised

Maybe some day, many moons from now, I might have enough to match this little open cluster!



C
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Re: Strange shape in Lunar pic AS11-40-5940

Post  Jackie (Admin) on Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:38 pm

Keep this kind of work up, and I'll have to give you your own galaxy!
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Re: Strange shape in Lunar pic AS11-40-5940

Post  qmantoo on Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:16 am

Yes, good detective work.
What amazes me is that real photos should show the grain in the photo. Is that shown in your enlargements above? I assumed it was some kind of compression artifacts, because otherwise if it is the grain of the film, then these 'things' are extremely small.

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Re: Strange shape in Lunar pic AS11-40-5940

Post  TheWatcher on Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:57 am

Very interesting... Apart from possible drying stains theres is a possibility of something interesting in the lower tone levels... maybe flip to grayscale and invert (negative.... Very good, highly unusual catch. GJ

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Re: Strange shape in Lunar pic AS11-40-5940

Post  Copernicus on Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:56 pm

Hi guys,

These images were taken with the 70mm Hasselbad camera using a 60mm lens. Though the scanned images are large in size, they do not come anywhere close to approaching the actual quality that could be obtained from a modern scan of the film negative. Because of that, I do not believe that any actual real film grain would be visible in these scanned images.

Wouldn't it make a nice Christmas present from NASA if they actually would do some modern scans for us? santa

C
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Re: Strange shape in Lunar pic AS11-40-5940

Post  xxThexOnlyxx on Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:20 pm

I'm not sure what the blue thing is but when looking at the photo I happened to notice something.
It might not be much of anything at all, but I circled it in red. Unsure if someone else noticed it but I just wanted to show it.



Last edited by xxThexOnlyxx on Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Strange shape in Lunar pic AS11-40-5940

Post  Jackie (Admin) on Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:38 pm

Hmmm...Your circled area is two '+'s from the right hand side, and between the second and third + up from the bottom...It looks like a black rectangular shadow, but it also looks like it is being caused by a different light source than the rest of the shadows. Maybe one of our lunar folks will add a thought here Question
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Re: Strange shape in Lunar pic AS11-40-5940

Post  Copernicus on Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:49 pm

Nice eye, Onlyx! Like a Star @ heaven

I don't see anything apparently casting it!

C
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Re: Strange shape in Lunar pic AS11-40-5940

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